Waves of Consciousness

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Permalink Reply by Lee Tamplain on September 16, 2011 at 6:34pm

Emotions are a funny thing.  No human is free from them. I have been taught (guru-speak) that emotions are part of the mind and mind is part of the body.  The Self experiences the world through the senses of the body and thoughts of the mind.  The Self is not experienced; the Self is experiencing through the senses.  This all sounds so theoretical. My goal is to Realize this and incorporate it into my mind so the mind Knows Self and the mind realizes it's just being used to experience the universe.....bleh....these discussions are so hard.  I'm always concerned about being perceived as a flake, which I do towards many people but still love them.

 

No one is free from experiencing emotions except, perhaps, pathologically affected humans.  It's how we feel about our feelings, respond to them, where the emotions point us to, what actions we take in response to our emotions that is our life/living.  

Debrah McCabe said:

Well then I guess I have a long way to go, because I 'know' what you are saying in my head, but I am also very affected by the suffering of any sort, by any being.  A stage perhaps on the journey, this point of knowing and still being caught up emotionally.   And I think maybe an inevitable and necessary part of the process.  Just steps along the way.  Do we exist only for the purpose of being a vehicle to 'experiencing' Self?

 

On a purely practical level and keeping all of the above in mind, at the stage that I seem to find myself at in this life, knowing what I know, believing what I believe, how to rationalize or justify or to simply accept, the violence of humanity without getting all twisted up in knots emotionally?  And are you Lee, suggesting that even someone who lays claim to 'being unattached' to outcomes/events could find themselves dealing with emotional upheaval?  Hypothetically speaking, what is your opinion.

 

Another thought that came to mind, if the sole purpose of the Source, is to experience, then that same emotional upheaval probably rates as one more experience, done my way, from my perspective.  The next 'human' will have events occurring in their life and one more time, it will be experienced his way.  And thus, my desire to be free of this angst could be seen as an impediment to that experience?  Hmmm, have to think about this.....

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Permalink Reply by Debrah McCabe on September 16, 2011 at 7:33pm

And why do we have that goal?  Besides being able to say (to yourself) "aha, I've arrived!  I know that I am the Self and just experiencing stuff!"  (Just kidding), but seriously, why do we seek unattachment if the act of experiencing is the goal of the 'I Am'.  Are the emotions that accompany that experience not part of the experience?  This is something that has just occurred to me recently and proving to be a tangle in my mind.  I think your remarks about emotion sort of support the idea that the experience of the Source might include the experiencing of these or any strong emotions.

To change the subject a teeny bit, I read a great essay or maybe it is the transcript of a talk that Jiddu Krishnamurti  gave.  http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1925-discipleship  I thought it was brilliant and have read it twice in a day. 

Lee Tamplain said:

Emotions are a funny thing.  No human is free from them. I have been taught (guru-speak) that emotions are part of the mind and mind is part of the body.  The Self experiences the world through the senses of the body and thoughts of the mind.  The Self is not experienced; the Self is experiencing through the senses.  This all sounds so theoretical. My goal is to Realize this and incorporate it into my mind so the mind Knows Self and the mind realizes it's just being used to experience the universe.....bleh....these discussions are so hard.  I'm always concerned about being perceived as a flake, which I do towards many people but still love them.

 

No one is free from experiencing emotions except, perhaps, pathologically affected humans.  It's how we feel about our feelings, respond to them, where the emotions point us to, what actions we take in response to our emotions that is our life/living.  

Debrah McCabe said:

Well then I guess I have a long way to go, because I 'know' what you are saying in my head, but I am also very affected by the suffering of any sort, by any being.  A stage perhaps on the journey, this point of knowing and still being caught up emotionally.   And I think maybe an inevitable and necessary part of the process.  Just steps along the way.  Do we exist only for the purpose of being a vehicle to 'experiencing' Self?

 

On a purely practical level and keeping all of the above in mind, at the stage that I seem to find myself at in this life, knowing what I know, believing what I believe, how to rationalize or justify or to simply accept, the violence of humanity without getting all twisted up in knots emotionally?  And are you Lee, suggesting that even someone who lays claim to 'being unattached' to outcomes/events could find themselves dealing with emotional upheaval?  Hypothetically speaking, what is your opinion.

 

Another thought that came to mind, if the sole purpose of the Source, is to experience, then that same emotional upheaval probably rates as one more experience, done my way, from my perspective.  The next 'human' will have events occurring in their life and one more time, it will be experienced his way.  And thus, my desire to be free of this angst could be seen as an impediment to that experience?  Hmmm, have to think about this.....

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Permalink Reply by Eric Allen Bell on September 18, 2011 at 4:07pm

Debrah -

 

Check this out: http://www.ericallenbell.org/forum/topics/the-awakening-of-direct-p...

 

Eric

 

www.Facebook.com/EricAllenBell

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Lee Tamplain on September 18, 2011 at 7:43pm

When you ask, "Do we exist only for the purpose of being a vehicle to 'experiencing' Self?", do you realize you are totally speaking in terms of the physical body?  Is that what you're asking:  Do our bodies exist only for the purpose of being a vehicle to 'experiencing' Self?...because, to that question, I would answer "Yes."...except for my position that, the Self is not experienced; the Self is experiencing.

Another thought that came to mind, if the sole purpose of the Source, is to experience, then that same emotional upheaval probably rates as one more experience, done my way, from my perspective.  The next 'human' will have events occurring in their life and one more time, it will be experienced his way.  And thus, my desire to be free of this angst could be seen as an impediment to that experience?  Hmmm, have to think about this..... 

  Perception....back to my favorite word.  Yes, we do, indeed, all perceive experiences from our own perspective.  Your angst is an experience, not an impediment.  Again, where does it come from; where does it point you; how is it that you can experience angst; who is experiencing angst; is your Self affected by angst; are you your Self?  (hee hee)
Debrah McCabe said:

And why do we have that goal?  Besides being able to say (to yourself) "aha, I've arrived!  I know that I am the Self and just experiencing stuff!"  (Just kidding), but seriously, why do we seek unattachment if the act of experiencing is the goal of the 'I Am'.  Are the emotions that accompany that experience not part of the experience?  This is something that has just occurred to me recently and proving to be a tangle in my mind.  I think your remarks about emotion sort of support the idea that the experience of the Source might include the experiencing of these or any strong emotions.

To change the subject a teeny bit, I read a great essay or maybe it is the transcript of a talk that Jiddu Krishnamurti  gave.  http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1925-discipleship  I thought it was brilliant and have read it twice in a day. 

Lee Tamplain said:

Emotions are a funny thing.  No human is free from them. I have been taught (guru-speak) that emotions are part of the mind and mind is part of the body.  The Self experiences the world through the senses of the body and thoughts of the mind.  The Self is not experienced; the Self is experiencing through the senses.  This all sounds so theoretical. My goal is to Realize this and incorporate it into my mind so the mind Knows Self and the mind realizes it's just being used to experience the universe.....bleh....these discussions are so hard.  I'm always concerned about being perceived as a flake, which I do towards many people but still love them.

 

No one is free from experiencing emotions except, perhaps, pathologically affected humans.  It's how we feel about our feelings, respond to them, where the emotions point us to, what actions we take in response to our emotions that is our life/living.  

Debrah McCabe said:

Well then I guess I have a long way to go, because I 'know' what you are saying in my head, but I am also very affected by the suffering of any sort, by any being.  A stage perhaps on the journey, this point of knowing and still being caught up emotionally.   And I think maybe an inevitable and necessary part of the process.  Just steps along the way.  Do we exist only for the purpose of being a vehicle to 'experiencing' Self?

 

On a purely practical level and keeping all of the above in mind, at the stage that I seem to find myself at in this life, knowing what I know, believing what I believe, how to rationalize or justify or to simply accept, the violence of humanity without getting all twisted up in knots emotionally?  And are you Lee, suggesting that even someone who lays claim to 'being unattached' to outcomes/events could find themselves dealing with emotional upheaval?  Hypothetically speaking, what is your opinion.

 

Another thought that came to mind, if the sole purpose of the Source, is to experience, then that same emotional upheaval probably rates as one more experience, done my way, from my perspective.  The next 'human' will have events occurring in their life and one more time, it will be experienced his way.  And thus, my desire to be free of this angst could be seen as an impediment to that experience?  Hmmm, have to think about this.....

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Permalink Reply by Debrah McCabe on September 19, 2011 at 4:02am

Lee Tamplain said:........ Do our bodies exist only for the purpose of being a vehicle to 'experiencing' Self?...because, to that question, I would answer "Yes."...except for my position that, the Self is not experienced; the Self is experiencing.

 

Hi Lee,
So if we have accepted that all the experiences of our lives are simply experiences that the Source (desires) then what is our human self to do with the emotions that we experience that accompany these experiences?  I think that is the heart of my question because those upheavals of emotion that periodically and frequently affect my peace, my mental equilibrium, seem to result inevitably in a plunge to the depths.  And while that may be part of the Sources experience, what am I (the human) to do with that.  And this is a fact of life for millions of people around the world, many of whom don't even know that they exist as a dual being, Source and human.  Mind you, in their cases, perhaps it is an easier thing at that point to not have the double whammy of 'knowing' and yet struggling emotionally.  And getting lost in questions of "who is experiencing the angst, you or Source" fails to provide a means to manage the feelings or the effects thereof, and more usually seems to leave me feeling as though I have failed because I've 'let go' of the peace the preceded the plunge.

When I use the word impediment, I'm not referring to the 'angst' itself, but to my desire to be rid of the angst.  And if the mournful feelings, or hurting feelings or whatever you want to call it is part of the 'experience', than maybe we should acquiesce and proceed to wallow in those horrible emotions instead of what seems to be an effort to rise above, step outside of....the effects of our knowledge of human abuse upon whatever lays before us.  In my reading, I am seeing what to me appears to be an effort to direct seekers of Truth to a place outside of those feelings as though they are something to escape from. 

 

I think the average person looks at a sad thing, is moved by it somewhat, but is able to disengage from it (rather easily) and move on.  They give money, they give a helping hand, they do any number of things that helps them 'manage' their sadness at that situation, whatever it might be and they move on.  I do all those things too, but I am also emotionally immobilized and the fact that I am aware of our duality only serves to compound my problem because I am left trying to balance the awareness that 'I' am part of the cause of that suffering however distant it may be and trying not to indulge in hatred towards those who are immediately causing that suffering.  The issue of 'being One with the sufferer' is more easily accepted obviously because that appeals to a sympathetic nature.  Obviously I can't or shouldn't give in to full blown, "I hate those......because of......" because they are part of the same source that I am. This question has less to do with determining 'what is my state of being and who is the watcher/experiencer' to a more practical application of how do I as a dual being deal with the emotions that I experience.

 

This is a good discussion because while I am using myself as an example, I think that there are many people who struggle with the same sorts of issues and we need to understand 'how' to deal with these moments in light of a certain awareness of 'duality'.

 

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Permalink Reply by Lee Tamplain on September 23, 2011 at 7:02am

Hi Debrah, I've been away for a while.  I certainly don't have any answers for you.  Sometimes we just need to spill our feelings out to someone just to give them a place to go.  Perhaps using this site or others like it may provide an avenue for you.  The best course would be to talk with a friend, but friends who would understand the depth of these discussions are rare.  I have a friend with whom I can discuss anything.  That's a big help to me.

 

Unfortunately, you seem to be overly affected by emotions.  That is worrisome.  I have been immobilized by feelings many times.  It takes me a LONG time to get over an emotional blow......I don't know what to tell you.  Strenuous exercise always helps me get rid of angst.  It calms my mind and helps me to concentrate better.  I used to be a sit-down-and-meditate person, but I don't do that anymore, but I do say "Thank you" throughout the day as acknowledgement to the Universe for so many things. When I'm really stirred up, a few cuss words muttered under my breath helps.

 

Me going into a discussion on the evolution of emotions and the influence of genetics on behaviors would be useless to you.  I see so many of my behaviors are the same as my father's and siblings'.  It's partially environmental, but I think genetics play a huge part.  Life is an experiment; we have to keep tweeking the variables to see if we can get results that help us on our way.

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Permalink Reply by Debrah McCabe on September 23, 2011 at 1:42pm

Hey Lee, Thanks for the lovely post.  I do  appreciate it and you do seem to have a grasp on the way I've been feeling lately and sometimes, like you said, it really does help to have an ear, even if far away, to listen for a minute.  I was in a total pit a couple weeks ago, but I'm doing better now thanks in part, to you and Eric.  You have my gratitude.  

 

It is hard to find people who 'get it' regarding humanities place in the world and who are as 'invested' mentally and emotionally in that awareness so it's always pleasant and helpful in our own journeys, to meet someone who does and is, and share ideas and understandings.  So thanks one more time for spending the time.

 

As for getting through turbulent times, up until the beginnning of this year, I managed to be disciplined enough to meditate at least 20 minutes most days of the week and it really does help.  At the same time, we were building a house, about three hours drive away, and gearing up for moving ourselves and our 'farm' of stuff and critters and that took place mid-May.  So you can imagine how busy we've been for the last eight months.  New fences, organize everything so I've got a place to store hay and then build a chicken house for the tiny flock who share our home, plus a million other things, and I got so busy that meditation got left by the way.  But you know, just before the big push started, I can remember feeling so mellow that 'it was like I was in a coma'.  Nothing bothered me, not even the chaos of a big move.   I just floated through all of it like a fallen leaf on a rushing stream. But quit meditating and it isn't too long and I fall apart.  Well, I started doing yoga again every other evening and now the meditating must start.  I know I need to do it.

 

We all have different ways to manage this kind of thing don't we?  Tweeking the variables like you said, to see what the latest results will be.  Very good way to put it.

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