The Maturation of the Soul - by Eric Allen Bell

Comment

Comment by Alexi on November 4, 2012 at 4:25pm

I’ve found it intriguing in discussion forums around spirituality how fast “positioning” can disrupt the messages being exchanged.  In full candor, I am not immune from this folly myself.  Still, I must share (as someone fairly new to inquiry on such matters), when I see this happening, I find myself thinking of Rumi’s poem citing “all the clever humans”

Dylon -  to your point on “language and subterfuge”, I encourage you to re-review both Eric and Debrah’s comments in context with ‘As a Particle of Dust’ by Rumi.  Whenever I find myself arguing semantics, I re-read that poem.  I did truly appreciate your comments, I just wasn't sure where they were leading?

Eric – on your comment:

“The question is this, when the pain emerges, ‘What do you make it mean?’. In the absence of mastering the mind, the pain becomes the master, and the avoidance of pain becomes the mandate of the person”

Interestingly, the last answer hit home…perhaps because I was thinking of it in context of how one would master a (potentially scary, disturbing or painful) dream

If you dream vividly, there is no separation of “self”, and it’s interesting how in the avoidance of pain in a dream, the dream may actually get worse, or reoccur until the root issue at the core of the pain is worked out subconsciously or consciously.  People who have serious sleep-related issues may choose many paths (such as self-medication), but mastery of the mind – specific to “What do you make it mean?”  - to face what your dream is revealing to you (i.e., what you are revealing to yourself) – is often the fastest, most sure-fire way to remove the pain from your own story, and thus, get a peaceful night’s rest

In context of dreams, arguments about what is conscious and “not conscious”, whether self is consistent, evolving, whether there is duality or not - are really quite irrelevant.  You must master your own mind, reformulate against the survival mandate in those dreams.  Interesting - if I view it from a context of dreaming, it is easy to understand how I am in fact the “author, protagonist and antagonist in the story”. 

Mastering the mind on a “waking” level is much more difficult, but I think I understand this thread a little better now

Thank you

Comment by Debrah McCabe on November 4, 2012 at 4:25am

"to allude to something and share a sentiment. "  Exactly!

Comment by Eric Allen Bell on November 3, 2012 at 9:40pm

It's not the stuff of logic and language, when challenged or looked at closely will generally fail.  When disucussing matters of consciousness, outside of the realm of science, in more metaphysical terms, perhaps the best we can hope for with language is to allude to something and share a sentiment.  

Comment by Debrah McCabe on November 3, 2012 at 7:14am

I think it is a game that humans like to get into, even those who think they are evolving.  The game of words and besting one another with those words.  We all do it and I include myself in that criticism.  But really, are those words between like-minded 'disagree-ers' really critical to our evolution or is it more important to just realize that we are all the same being, all one(One)?  In 20 years, who will remember any of the words here? 

We argue with words, but they are a pale description of reality and it's not worth getting worked up over, i.e. who used which word and when...... 

While the speakers may be forgotten, will those who practiced that 'One-ness' in their lives be remembered and cherished for their loving goodness?   Language does only take us so far, but what really counts is how we travel this road and who is benefited by our journey. 

Comment by Dylon Wilder on November 3, 2012 at 4:07am

You use the language of non duality when it suits you. You use subterfuge when that falls short. 

Comment by Eric Allen Bell on November 3, 2012 at 4:04am

Dylon -

Of course, we are speaking in concepts.  Language can only take us so far.  That said, you stated "You experience a self..." Who is the "you" who is experiencing a "self" in that concept?  Are they two different entities?  Who experiences the self?

Comment by Dylon Wilder on November 2, 2012 at 4:23am

That the self has a nature which is consistent and shared by all selves is a concept. You experience a self that desires to evolve. That’s all you can say.

Comment by Eric Allen Bell on November 2, 2012 at 3:42am

Alexi - So you see there is no way to outsmart the pain, no philosophy will get you out of it.  We can use Zen and say that you and the pain are not separate, except as a trick of the mind.  But then there is still the pain.  And many Zen practitioners would respond by saying it is you who failed Zen.  How convenient.  The pain is a reality, insofar as the brain/body organism is concerned.  The question is this, when the pain emerges, "What do you make it mean?"  In the absence of mastering the mind, the pain becomes the master, and the avoidance of pain becomes the mandate of the person.  As the mind is mastered, one is not so bound by the survival mandate.  When captured by the survival mandate, very little can be truly realized.

Comment by Eric Allen Bell on November 2, 2012 at 3:37am

Dylon - Correct.  Nothing is also part of consciousness.  Everything and nothing are the same things but called by different names.

As for a "destination" such thing can only exist within time and space - that being a dimension of reality which is ultimately unreal.  So here once again language reveals its limitations.  The "Self" has nothing to evolve towards and yet the nature of the "self" is to evolve.

Comment by Dylon Wilder on November 1, 2012 at 4:35am

“The nature of consciousness is that it evolves.  Everything is comprised of consciousness.”

These two statements are self-cancelling. If everything is consciousness then nothing isn’t consciousness. Evolution would suggest an expansion beyond what already is which means there is a destination which isn’t currently within consciousness or made of consciousness. Evolution is merely one more illusion within the allness or oneness of consciousness. There is nothing to evolve toward as I already am it. We’re all free to follow whatever illusion tickles our fancy but waking up is seeing through all illusion.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page